Tyndall effect

[TheJimReaper]

I followed the instructions for making ionic silver.
I used 1 ml of electrolyte to 1 liter of distilled water.
My power supply is 10ma at 10 VDC, which should produce a 20ppm batch, after running for 30 minutes.
it looks fine, but it has something of a Tyndall effect and I didnt think that there was supposed any Tyndall effect using this method.
Is this normal ?
Many thanks in advance
Jim

[kephra]

When making ionic silver, there should be no Tyndall effect beyond what was in the water before starting.

If you have a Tyndall effect, its probably due to particles of silver oxide falling off the anode.  This can be caused by the current being too high for the amount of anode surface area, or other contamination in the water.

[TheJimReaper]

I think it must be the electrode size, because I just used 2 silver wires bent into a U shape
Im going to try a silver bar that is approx 1.975 x 1.150 I have and make the other electrode out of copper using the 3 to 1 ratio
Am I  correct about that ratio  ?
Thanks again

[TheJimReaper]

Im already running at 10 volts and 10ma, but Im getting a Tyndall effect and Kephra had suggested that I might have too much current for the amount of electrode area that I have which isn't much
That why I was asking about the electrode size ratio

[emanwols]

I may be wrong but my take on tyndall is that if you check it in a darkened room you will always see tyndall effect. check it in daylight. if you see tyndall in daylight then that is not good.
Comments welcome please
thanks

[kephra]

Tyndall is caused by undissolved substances in the water.  Larger particles and larger quantities produce more Tyndall effect.

We should always strive to minimize the effect.  When starting with pure distilled water and pure silver, it is produced by undissolved silver oxides shedding from the anode, and/or silver dust shedding from the cathode.

In general:
Sufficient electrolyte will minimize silver from the cathode.
Larger anode surface area will decrease silver oxides from shedding from the anode.
Lower current will also decrease anode shedding.

[TheJimReaper]

Im using a silver bar for the anode now and the Tyndal effect is much less noticeable, but is still there to a small degree in a dark room and none in a well lit room
The distilled water Im using is reading between 1.6 to 2.0 PPM, Im going to use a ZERO water filter and see if that will get it down closer to 0 PPM, maybe that will help a bit.
Im also going to carefully make another batch of electrolyte because I just found out my triple beam scale wasn't zero'd out and think I may have used a bit too much Arm & Hammer when I made the last batch of electrolyte
Would too much electrolyte or too strong an electrolyte mixture contribute to the Tyndell effect ?
Many Thanks

[TheJimReaper]

The zero water filter reduced the PPM from 1.6 down to 0.3 but I'm still getting the Tyndal effect
I'm running at 10 volts across the electrodes with about 7.5 ma and moderately stirring at room temperture
Could it be the silver I'm using ?
The positive electrode is nearly totally black after only 15 minutes of run time, could someone tell me if the is normal ?
Thanks

[TheJimReaper]

Thanks for taking the time to reply
Im seeing the Tyndall effect within about 10 to 15 minutes of turning the power on
Im using the chemical reduction method described on this site to make ionic silver
Im using 1ml of electrolyte to 1 liter of 0.03 PPM water
My electrodes are a standard size .999 bullion bar for the positive electrode and a piece of brass the same size for the negative electrode and they are  about 1 inch apart
I run at room temperature with moderate stirring
I dont have a way to post pictures, sorry

Any help is appreciated, because I'm kinda baffled
Thanks

[kephra]

Your cathode is way too big.  You should use a piece of copper or silver wire, no larger than 12 gauge, and just deep enough to produce your desired current and at least 10 volts across the electrodes. 

I suspect that such a large cathode (the size of a bullion bar) spreads the sodium ions out too far to protect the cathode from plateout.  The silver that plates out onto the cathode falls off as silver crystals causing a lot of turbidity.

[TheJimReaper]

Thank you Kephra
I'll try it ASAP

[WayneInPHX]

I run at room temperature with moderate stirring

What is "Room Temperature" to you?

75F / 24C should be a minimum.

[TheJimReaper]

Thanks Kephra & Wayne
I used a 12 Ga silver wire for the negative electrode and that made a big improvement ! ! !
Previously I was seeing larger particles of what I'm assuming is silver oxide swirling around and a bright Tyndall effect.
I'm still seeing the particles of silver oxide like before, but now even in a totally dark room the Tyndall effect is EXTREMELY faint and with just minimal lighting it completely disappears.
Previously, it was easily seen in a well lit room.
I just read about the importance of PH and Temp, just ordered a PH meter to find the sweet spot and also going to be running between 90F and 100F instead of 72F from now on
I feel like I'm getting much closer to where I want to be now
I VERY much appreciate your help !
Thank you

[kephra]

Sweet! 

The best way to get the correct pH is to weigh your sodium carbonate accurately.
Cheap pH meters are not that accurate.  Consider that doubling the amount of sodium carbonate changes the pH only by .3, likewise halving the amount of sodium carbonate changes the pH only by -.3.   Even if the pH meter is perfectly accurate, which they are not, weighing is much more accurate and precise.

[WayneInPHX]

I just read about the importance of PH and Temp, just ordered a PH meter to find the sweet spot and also going to be running between 90F and 100F instead of 72F from now on

TWo things to note from someone who has already "Been there/Done that"  RETURN the meter unused.  WASTE of money, KEP said it: ACCURATE MEASUREMENT is KEY.

Second, For ensured water purity, Get THIS: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NKMXDKO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I bought one of these AND 4 replacement filters.  It will outlast ME I think.  Kep had made reference to it in a post several months back.  Ordered it the day I read his post.

Use it on your ALREADY DISTILLED WATER to further purify it.  By using it ONLY on your distilled water, The filter cartridge will last a long time since it is already "Pure".  I often use the water it produces to rinse out my already clean glassware and simply pour it back into the top to re-clean it.   I don't even need a TDS meter since it really cannot get much purer.   I have a $80 TDS meter.... rotting in the drawer as well as some VERY expensive PH paper.