Author Topic: Safety Concerns  (Read 1571 times)

00ap3x00

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Safety Concerns
« on: February 27, 2022, 03:15:01 AM »
I'm interesting in trying colloidal silver as a nasal rinse and maybe drinking some. Before I do it's important to me that I understand it well enough to feel confident it's decently safe. I read all the stickies but now I have questions, maybe you guys could be so kind as to help me out.

1) its my understanding that if ingesting AgNP you want a very high ratio of silver NP compared to ions. I don't understand this. Ions are more dangerous to ingest (as far as I remember reading they're more suitable for topic use) but the NP will slowly release ions anyway. Why are the slowly released ions from NP not dangerous?

2)
Quote
So the optimum particle size seems to be within the 10 to 20 nanometer diameter range.  Below this and the silver becomes toxic to healthy human cells, and above this becomes less effective. Colloidal silver produced by the methods presented on this site has particles averaging about 14 nanometers in diameter as determined by their surface plasmon resonance ~ https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=3170.msg26234

If the average particle size is 14 NP, and there's always a variable range, approximately what % of NP are in the <10% danger zone and what are the consequences of that?

3) What happens when a silver ion or particle gets trapped in a healthy cell? Does it kill the cell? Stay in it forever? Eventually move onto organs?

4) I've seen some concerning research that AgNP can accumulate in the brain, liver, ball bag, etc ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ArvHczbFS0

On the forum I read the half-life of AgNP could be anywhere from 3-70 days (approximately) based on multiple studies, but that study above suggests it just sits around in your brain and balls for longer. Guy was kind of stuttering at that part, he mentioned 2 groups where the silver fully cleared out (? or something). I had trouble following.

5) Is this study concerning? I'm having trouble deciphering it ~ https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2012/ra/c2ra20684f

6) Is AgNP nasal rinse risky in any way? My paranoid brain is thinking maybe NP will start to build up in there. The sinuses are right beside the brain and I'm unsure if there's a way they can cross over.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 03:20:03 AM by 00ap3x00 »

Offline kephra

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2022, 03:49:34 PM »
First, there are no reports in the medical literature of anyone ever turning blue or otherwise harmed by drinking real colloidal silver.  There are reports of people turning blue from drinking ionic silver made or sold as colloidal silver.

Its true that silver nanoparticles give off silver ions BUT, they only do that when they contact a pathogen, because of the difference in the electric charge of the pathogen.  Silver nanoparticles do not just blow off ions, otherwise the particles would decrease in size over time, and the color would shift toward green.  This does not happen even with samples stored for many years.

As for particles being too small, that's not likely.  The particles always tend to grow, unless stabilized.  The stabilizer stops particle growth at a size mostly determined by the stabilizer (Karo, maltodextrin, cinnamon, polyvinylpyrolidone, gelatin, etc).

When a silver ion enters a healthy cell, it reacts with and binds to sulfur or selenium, and becomes permanently stuck there,  The reaction is not reversible and so argyria is not reversible.

I had a dog that was getting constant skin infections when she was 13.  For the next 2 years, I gave her nothing to drink except 20ppm Colloidal Silver and when she died, her skin was still pink with no trace of argyria.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline tbrod

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2022, 06:51:33 PM »
One of my dogs I thought was going to die he was so sick...wouldn't eat just off....for three days I just gave a bowl of water with Colloidal Silver put in it...and he started to come back to his old self.  He is doing fantastic now.   I so truely believe in Colloidal Silver and all the good things it does for us and our pets.

00ap3x00

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2022, 06:40:19 AM »
What do you make of the build up of silver particles in the brain and organs, doesn't that imply some kind of potential harm maybe happening over time with prolonged use? It seems researchers aren't doing long-term safety testing so we need to rely on anecdotal evidence. I don't have any proof it's dangerous but I'm still a bit concerned.

When a silver ion merges with a cell does the body still see it as healthy and it operates normally or is it dysfunctional in some way?

What do you think about making larger sized particles that are less effective killing pathogens but are too big to enter cells?

Someone should buy a rat and let it drink nothing but colloidal silver, then after a few years send its organs to a lab for testing ;D If I end up building a generator maybe I'll try to do it.



Offline tbrod

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2022, 01:00:04 PM »
Welllllll.....if you are concerned about any ramifications of using Colloidal Silver, then don't use Colloidal Silver.  That would solve things, right?  :-) 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17453933/


Although silver is metabolized throughout the soft tissues, available evidence from experimental animal studies and human clinical reports has failed to unequivocally establish that it enters tissues of the central nervous system or is a cause of neurotoxic damage. Argyria characterized by deposition of particles of silver sulfide or silver selenide is the principle contraindication for using silver in medical devices or occupationally. This presents discoloration of the skin but is not regarded as a health risk or manifestation of toxicity. No evidence is available to demonstrate the toxic risk of silver to the peripheral nervous system, although silver sulfide deposits have been identified in the region of cutaneous nerves. Transitory silver sulfide deposits seen in the tissues of the blood-brain and blood-CSF barriers are mostly lysosomally bound or deposited on basement membranes or collagen without toxic effect. Silver is mostly excreted from the body in the urine and feces. Further research is indicated to evaluate the role of metal binding proteins including metallothioneins as cytoprotectants for neurological tissue.
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« Last Edit: February 28, 2022, 01:06:11 PM by tbrod »

00ap3x00

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2022, 05:07:23 PM »
^ That's true. But I'm very tempted to, because my health is in a bad state. I mostly wanted to use it as a nasal flush to see if it helped reduce polyps and sinusitis, but after a lot of research I think I'll use oregano oil.

Also wanted to use it for suspected candida in the gut as well, but not sure it's worth it.

I found a medical test claiming kidney toxicity: https://bmcnephrol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12882-021-02428-5

"The AgNPs suspension was subjected to dynamic light scattering (DLS) analysis (...) average particle size of approximately 250 nm."

I found that interesting, can't remember what size particles you guys aim for but I believe these are huge in comparison?

They did a study on liver toxicity after 28 days and it seemed fine ~ https://www.sid.ir/en/Journal/ViewPaper.aspx?ID=523707 (pdf)


Offline kephra

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2022, 05:21:41 PM »
Quote
"The AgNPs suspension was subjected to dynamic light scattering (DLS) analysis (...) average particle size of approximately 250 nm."

I found that interesting, can't remember what size particles you guys aim for but I believe these are huge in comparison?
This is very misleading.  DLS does not measure the size of the silver nanoparticle.  It measures the size of the nanoparticle plus the capping agent.  So the toxicity could be from the substance used to cap the silver.  This is one of the reasons I have always used food items to reduce or cap silver nanoparticles.

Colloidal Silver will not remove or stop polyps from growing.   
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2022, 09:37:35 AM »
One has to be very careful with MSM reports and papers. There are three types of MSM scientific reports.

The first are deliberate hit-jobs. They are intended to directly lie about the use and utility of Colloidal Silver, to "show" that our science is not valid. These fake reports are then boosted by search engines to appear at the top of casual searches on the subject to put people off trying to embark on the journey to create their own Colloidal Silver. Likewise images - search Argyria and you will see industrial Argyria photos from the pre-1950's era, which are then used to imply the present-day risks of Colloidal Silver use.

The second type - the most insidious - are there to damage the cause of Colloidal Silver and alternative medicine by "damnation with faint praise". They look oh, so valid and enticing on the face of it, even admitting the antibacterial use of Colloidal Silver, but then they insert nasty little lie-bombs (the opposite of truth-bombs) to imply that there are side-effects, downsides, fake costs and similar, so that the less-educated reader does not pursue the subject because it appears too risky. The biggest lies on this subject are normally around Argyria (of course) and capping agents and production methods chosen to be highly poisonous or to give malicious results. The worst one I saw was to produce AgNPs by reduction of Silver Nitrate, which gives an end-result polluted by weak nitric acid. This nasty cocktail was then put into a fish-tank with some poor little zebra fish, who promptly all died from swimming in not-so-dilute acid. The fake and wicked conclusion from this paper implied that Colloidal Silver was dangerous to all life. A monstrous lie, but of course the paper was published with glee by mainstream "science" to put people off.

Occasionally, we get a valid paper. The third kind. The only country that tends to publish these is India, where they have intelligent scientists who are working in a country with wealthy cities but a dirt-poor hinterland, which would benefit greatly from cheap, effective antibiotics. This combination tends to result in a reasonable level of truth-telling.

We only use repurposed food-grade capping agents.

00ap3x00

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2022, 08:35:36 PM »
This is very misleading.  DLS does not measure the size of the silver nanoparticle.  It measures the size of the nanoparticle plus the capping agent.  So the toxicity could be from the substance used to cap the silver.  This is one of the reasons I have always used food items to reduce or cap silver nanoparticles.

Colloidal Silver will not remove or stop polyps from growing.

That's a good point! I tried emailing one of the guys from the study about the capping agent I'll let you know if he responds.

I think its chronic inflammation that allows for polyp growth. In my case I had a CT scan and the specialist told me the area of my sinuses that handles allergens is extremely inflamed and clogged.
 
My theory is that if I constantly purge the allergens, bacteria and fungus from my nose while eating a super clean diet and exercising maybe the tumors will go into remission because they have no more inflammatory drivers fueling their growth.

The health care system in Canada sucks so I have to wait up to 1.5 years for my surgery anyway, might as well do some experimental treatments on myself as long as the risk is low ;D There are some potentially big dangers from surgery so if I could avoid it I'd be very happy.

I researched all the main components of oregano oil and I found there are a couple that can help inhibit tumor growth. I wasn't able to find any data on remission of tumors though. There was a decent study that showed oregano oil can solve sinusitis but none of them had polyps:

http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/54351/1/IJTK%2019%282%29%20341-349.pdf

One has to be very careful with MSM reports and papers. There are three types of MSM scientific reports.

The first are deliberate hit-jobs. They are intended to directly lie about the use and utility of Colloidal Silver, to "show" that our science is not valid. These fake reports are then boosted by search engines to appear at the top of casual searches on the subject to put people off trying to embark on the journey to create their own Colloidal Silver. Likewise images - search Argyria and you will see industrial Argyria photos from the pre-1950's era, which are then used to imply the present-day risks of Colloidal Silver use.

The second type - the most insidious - are there to damage the cause of Colloidal Silver and alternative medicine by "damnation with faint praise". They look oh, so valid and enticing on the face of it, even admitting the antibacterial use of Colloidal Silver, but then they insert nasty little lie-bombs (the opposite of truth-bombs) to imply that there are side-effects, downsides, fake costs and similar, so that the less-educated reader does not pursue the subject because it appears too risky. The biggest lies on this subject are normally around Argyria (of course) and capping agents and production methods chosen to be highly poisonous or to give malicious results. The worst one I saw was to produce AgNPs by reduction of Silver Nitrate, which gives an end-result polluted by weak nitric acid. This nasty cocktail was then put into a fish-tank with some poor little zebra fish, who promptly all died from swimming in not-so-dilute acid. The fake and wicked conclusion from this paper implied that Colloidal Silver was dangerous to all life. A monstrous lie, but of course the paper was published with glee by mainstream "science" to put people off.

Occasionally, we get a valid paper. The third kind. The only country that tends to publish these is India, where they have intelligent scientists who are working in a country with wealthy cities but a dirt-poor hinterland, which would benefit greatly from cheap, effective antibiotics. This combination tends to result in a reasonable level of truth-telling.

We only use repurposed food-grade capping agents.

That's true I've noticed a lot of blatant lies and fearmongering about AgNP. I read through some of the "quack watch" / "debunking" sites a week back and they did a poor job making a case that it's harmful.

It's hard for me to know what's true because I'm still learning how to read clinical trial results and my knowledge of chemistry is lacking. To make it worse like you mentioned the lack of studies. I really think you guys should start running some studies and post the results in the forum, especially to see long term effects / build up in organs. Also you could prove it handles lyme disease or whatever else. Just get some rats and run studies on them - if its legal (?)


Offline Josie29

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2022, 05:06:52 PM »
00ap3x00:

I have no clue if this would work ... just putting it out there ...

How about using a nasal spray of 3% food grade hydrogen peroxide - several times each day?  May work, may not work. I don't think there's a whole lot to

lose!

00ap3x00

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2022, 05:37:09 PM »
00ap3x00:

I have no clue if this would work ... just putting it out there ...

How about using a nasal spray of 3% food grade hydrogen peroxide - several times each day?  May work, may not work. I don't think there's a whole lot to

lose!

Hi, thanks for the suggestion! I actually tried that for 4-5 days and thought it was working because my smell came back a couple times. It was kind of a metallic smell though which concerned me because I seemed to be either 1) smelling the affected sinus and polyps (seems unlikely it would smell so strongly metallic) or 2) the hydrogen peroxide was leaving some kind of residue. I'm using "food grade" and it's not supposed to have toxic stabilizers and heavy metals in it but who knows - someone could literally be rebranding dollar store HP and selling it for 20x the price on amazon  >:(

The tumors started getting extremely irritated and angry from the HP treatments and my nasal airway didn't open from using it, it would often close up after treatment. Very, very small amount of coagulated blood came from my nose one morning. There's a polyp that's visible if I push my nose up and look with a light, it was bulging and irritated.

I ended up researching the effect of hydrogen peroxide on tumors and found some medical journals that said "hydrogen peroxide is like fertilizer for tumors"  :o

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC3180186/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21778829/

They seem to be talking about hydrogen peroxide created by some internal mechanism and not topical use where it should dissipate quickly. It's a bit over my head but it was enough for me to stop using it without putting in many hours more research.

00ap3x00

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2022, 05:43:18 PM »
Just a final update from me.

A couple weeks ago I ate a very clean diet then started a water fast for 3 days.

Then 5 days ago I caught covid19 (everyone in my house got it). as soon as symptoms appeared I started a water fast.

The visible polyp has shrunk to the point where I can't even see it anymore. So it's shrunk back at least 1CM into my nose.

My nose is always open in 1 nostril throughout the day now - no more obstruction for breathing - I can breathe through my nose comfortable (still haven't breathed through both nostrils at the same time yet though). Never had that much result in over 5 years of trying various things (including steroid sprays etc).

It's possible it's not just the water fasting, but also my immune system is focused on attacking covid instead of the inflammed naasal lining. That maybe a factor I can't say for sure.

Anyway, I'm starting to suspect strict water fasting is a god-tier recovery mechanism. I plan to go 10-14 days then do a 4-5 day water fast every month or two. Also gonna do intermittent fasting and keep my diet extremely clean.

Offline Josie29

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2022, 12:18:26 AM »
00ap3x00:

Sorry to hear that the H2O2 didnt work.  I tend to shy from buying items that could be counterfeited on Amazon - that includes the H2O2.  Here is the link for where I purchase my H2O2:  https://www.purehealthdiscounts.com/

I have used this company for years. 

I have heard great things about fasting for several days.  During fasting, the body begins to address problems that are present  ...  sort of what you have experienced.  I am glad that you have had positive results during/after fasting.

flamelnik

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2022, 01:40:14 PM »
Some EIS (Electrically Isolated Silver) formulations are light yellow, due to the refraction of light off of larger silver particles held in suspension. These formulations are less effective, but still qualify as EIS products.

I read this post and it got me thinking.
I found it here: http://www.silvermedicine.org/about-silver.html

Is there a chance that something like this applies?
In the forum I read that the ideal size is 14NM.
How do we achieve this? How many Am should we have to achieve this size?
Is the 20ppm I'm doing right now enough to fight the pathogens or should I raise the ppm?
Sorry for the barrage of questions but they have to be answered because I don't want to do anything without knowing how it works.

Thanks in advance!!!

Offline tbrod

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Re: Safety Concerns
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2022, 01:57:25 PM »
Josie...I fast everyday... I dropped pounds very fast.  I eat everything I want for the day before noon...and don't eat anything until 5-6am the next morning...that is fasting and it works...roku has it on their channel intermittant fasting.  The fasting period is when you are asleep, ergo you aren't hungry like if you did the 18 hrs +/- during the day. I feel lighter and healthier and of course I don't eat cakes, candy, muffins, pizza  etc that make you hungry all the time and put on weight.  If I eat a muffin or bread, I'm hungry all day.

00ap3x00:

Sorry to hear that the H2O2 didnt work.  I tend to shy from buying items that could be counterfeited on Amazon - that includes the H2O2.  Here is the link for where I purchase my H2O2:  https://www.purehealthdiscounts.com/

I have used this company for years. 

I have heard great things about fasting for several days.  During fasting, the body begins to address problems that are present  ...  sort of what you have experienced.  I am glad that you have had positive results during/after fasting.