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41
Colloidal Silver Production / Re: availability of Soda and capping agents
« Last post by kephra on March 19, 2024, 07:30:19 PM »
Aah! Instant enlightenment! That makes sense to me. The baylonian language confusion strikes again. Nobody would call it "baking soda" here. At least I have never consciously attributed the term to "Natron" as they call it here. In fact it is ubiquitous. I even have about 10kg of pristine powder in my shed. ;D
This does not happen for the first time that I cannot fathom what product Americans or English speak of until I realize, it is sitting right next to me, but with a totally different name.

I just realize that "eating soda" (obviously different to "washing soda", although very often used for cleaning purposes) is not commonly used for baking purposes hereabouts. I know that potassium carbonate is used for such purposes, but rarely.

Thank you again. This gets me going.
Right, sodium carbonate is not used for baking, but it is a result of baking, and you do consume it.  It is also used in commercial food preparation for adjusting pH.  It is also what gives pretzels the brown coating, as the dough is dipped into a solution of it before baking.

The language differences exist even between very similar cultures, like between the USA and Britain,
Most Americans do not know what bonnets and boots are with respect to cars.  We have hoods and trunks!
Most Americans do not know what Wellies and Macs are.  We have boots and raincoats.
Then there is metric versus imperial.
Everything in Britain is metric, except for beer which is still measured in pints.
In America most things are imperial except for spoons, soft drinks, automobiles, and medical equipment which are metric.
I'm sure there are other examples.
42
Colloidal Silver Production / Re: availability of Soda and capping agents
« Last post by Gene on March 19, 2024, 07:27:27 PM »
You can buy a box of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) from most grocery stores in the US (1/2-1 pound box) for less than $1.  This, converted to sodium carbonate will yield you enough to last you probably half a millennium (wink).  Also, when converting sodium bicarbonate to sodium carbonate (by baking it at 350F+ in an oven for an hour), what you wind up with is anhydrous sodium carbonate. The mined, store-bought washing soda form has a few water molecules attached to each sodium carbonate molecule so necessarily, you use LESS of the anhydrous form than you would of the store-bought washing soda form. The correct amount of anhydrous is stated in the Kephra's Notebook section of the forum in one of the top pinned articles (I don't remember which one).

Given its anhydrous, if you produce your own, simply store it in a jar with a tight fitting lid to keep its exposure to moisture to a minimum. Sodium compounds are usually all slightly to some VERY hygroscopic (they absorb water from the air) which you'd want to endeavor to prevent if you intend to store the sodium carbonate you've produced for any length of time.

Regarding the current you're processing with, this is directly related to the surface area of the silver anode you're using. For wire anodes, perhaps even 5ma is too much. For silver bullion bar anodes (1oz troy), without stirring, you could probably push it up to 5-10ma, maybe 15ma with stirring.

To see if the current you're running at is too high, once you have your cell running, shine a flashlight through the cell and look at the area around the anode. If you see long whispy whafts of what resembles cigarette smoke leaving the anode, your current is too high. You need to back it down until they go away.

Patience is a virtue and with making Colloidal Silver by the electrolysis method, its a necessity. Production moves at a snails pace and you just have to bide your time to let it happen properly.

At room temp (this is stated as 75F cell temp, NOT 68F thats commonly referred to as room temp - at least in the US), the solubility limit of silver oxide in water is a mere 22PPM. Given this would indicate you're processing cold (Not heating the cell), the limit of production is the stated 20PPM. You NEVER want to push more silver ions into the water than the solubility limit because what exceeds the limit will precipitate out of solution and never reduce.  Given with cold processing you run the electrolysis to push the cell to the 20PPM ionic silver state where you then heat the cell and add the reducer AFTER the run, this dictates the 20PPM limit.

At 150F (usually where we process when making higher than 20PPM batches), the solubility limit is 40PPM. The trick with higher PPM production is to keep the speed of reduction (reducer MUST be added before the run) proceeding FASTER than the speed at which you're pushing silver ions into the water to keep the concentration of ionic silver in the water below 40PPM for the entire run. Also, when you reach the time limit, yeah, turn off the current but leave the cell on the hotplate for maybe another 10-15 minutes to make sure the silver oxide you pushed into the water for the last 10-15 minutes of the run actually reduces.  Having said this, generally the volume of water in the cell is sufficient to hold the cell temp above about 140F for more than enough time if even its removed from the hotplate but the way I look at it is that I'm in no rush and I have plenty of other things to do after a run (cleaning things,...) so I do that first before removing the cell from the hotplate. To each his own.

Its not rocket science but its not always obvious either.
43
Colloidal Silver Production / Re: maltrodextrin powder
« Last post by aquataur on March 19, 2024, 06:41:10 PM »
My question fits here nicely.

Since most of the syrup brands mentioned are not (readily) available in Austria, I checked maltodextrin.
That´s where the next headache starts. They offer three categories:

Quote
Maltodextrin 6, maltodextrin 12 and maltodextrin 19 are sold commercially. The individual products differ in the chain length of their sugar molecules. Maltodextrin 6, for example, has more longer-chain carbohydrates than maltodextrin 12 and 19. The chain length also influences the sweetness of maltodextrin: maltodextrin 6 is less sweet than maltodextrin 12 and 19.
(from a health site, translation by Deepl)

I see you guys have no choice regarding the DE values, but since we have, we might as well choose.
Which of those would support our reducing task better? (I have to admit that I don´t understand all of things chemistry).

Thanks.
44
Colloidal Silver Production / Re: availability of Soda and capping agents
« Last post by aquataur on March 19, 2024, 03:18:08 PM »
Whoever you have bee listening to does not know what they are talking about.
it looks like

This also tells me that your generator is useless for making quality colloidal silver.
I modified it so that it can be  just a 60V source with 5/10 mA current limiting.

Baking powder is not baking soda, also called bicarbonate of soda.  Baking soda is pure sodium bicarbonate, and I can't imagine a country that does not have it available.

Aah! Instant enlightenment! That makes sense to me. The baylonian language confusion strikes again. Nobody would call it "baking soda" here. At least I have never consciously attributed the term to "Natron" as they call it here. In fact it is ubiquitous. I even have about 10kg of pristine powder in my shed. ;D
This does not happen for the first time that I cannot fathom what product Americans or English speak of until I realize, it is sitting right next to me, but with a totally different name.

I just realize that "eating soda" (obviously different to "washing soda", although very often used for cleaning purposes) is not commonly used for baking purposes hereabouts. I know that potassium carbonate is used for such purposes, but rarely.

Thank you again. This gets me going.
45
Colloidal Silver Production / Re: availability of Soda and capping agents
« Last post by kephra on March 19, 2024, 12:01:22 PM »
Thank you for your reply. Makes sense what you say about moving silver between the electrodes. In fact the local consensus is (can you call it "consensus" if nobody has an explanation?) that it is not known why there is no sludge build-up at the cathode and what and if there is a difference between a clear and a yellow ahem liquid.
Whoever you have bee listening to does not know what they are talking about.
Quote
Indeed, the product I gain from this mode tastes very metallic and has a strong Tyndall effect - which is supposed to be "good",  until I learned more here. Also, there is a considerable dark fall-out.
So what you made is overcooked ionic silver, the kind that turns people blue.  This also tells me that your generator is useless for making quality colloidal silver.
Quote
@ baking powder: I looked up what the local baking powders are made of.

They usually consist of one or more carbonates an/or bicarbonates, acid salts like disodium hydrogen phosphate or potassium acid tartrate. Plus starch or oats fibers up to 65% as bulk agent. Sometimes they contain  lemon extract for taste and acidifying and artificial vanilla.

Eminently acceptable for a cake, but for making Colloidal Silver? I`ll rather get some carbonate from a chemistry dealer and be on the safe side. They have it 99,7% pure. Ironically, this is far cheaper than getting the small envelopes in the supermarket.
Baking powder is not baking soda, also called bicarbonate of soda.  Baking soda is pure sodium bicarbonate, and I can't imagine a country that does not have it available.  Baking powder is not good because of the other ingredient in it.
When a cake with baking soda is baked, the baking soda turns into washing soda (sodium carbonate), and if you have ever eaten cake, you have consumed washing soda.
46
Colloidal Silver Production / Re: availability of Soda and capping agents
« Last post by aquataur on March 19, 2024, 07:42:20 AM »
Thank you for your reply. Makes sense what you say about moving silver between the electrodes. In fact the local consensus is (can you call it "consensus" if nobody has an explanation?) that it is not known why there is no sludge build-up at the cathode and what and if there is a difference between a clear and a yellow ahem liquid.

Indeed, the product I gain from this mode tastes very metallic and has a strong Tyndall effect - which is supposed to be "good",  until I learned more here. Also, there is a considerable dark fall-out.

@ baking powder: I looked up what the local baking powders are made of.

They usually consist of one or more carbonates an/or bicarbonates, acid salts like disodium hydrogen phosphate or potassium acid tartrate. Plus starch or oats fibers up to 65% as bulk agent. Sometimes they contain  lemon extract for taste and acidifying and artificial vanilla.

Eminently acceptable for a cake, but for making Colloidal Silver? I`ll rather get some carbonate from a chemistry dealer and be on the safe side. They have it 99,7% pure. Ironically, this is far cheaper than getting the small envelopes in the supermarket.

47
Colloidal Silver Production / Re: availability of Soda and capping agents
« Last post by kephra on March 18, 2024, 09:27:46 PM »
...

Don´t misunderstand me, I am not debating the addition of sodium carbonate, but I question the purity of a product that is not made for ingestion.
I have a small bucket of potassium carbonate food grade left over from another project and I will use that. If I understand correct, the weight will be interchangeable.
If you doubt the purity of your sodium carbonate, make your own from sodium bicarbonate (baking soda).
Sodium carbonate and potassium carbonate are not interchangeable at the same weight.
Quote

Corn syrup seems ubiquitous in the States, but not here. You get glucose syrup for making soft ice, but I did not find out if this is the same. They say it is glucose-fructose in various mixes.
Your glucose syrup will probably work ok.
Quote
The generator I have can be set to single polarity and switching polarity. The latter produces "clear" Colloidal Silver - which in in the lights of the stuff said here is probably I.O.S. Is there any merit of making the Colloidal Silver this way and then reduce it?
Thanks.
Never switch polarity. If you do, you are just moving silver from one electrode to the other, and you cannot predict the ppm.  Also switching requires 2 silver electrodes instead of just one silver and one any other metal.
48
Colloidal Silver Production / availability of Soda and capping agents
« Last post by aquataur on March 18, 2024, 07:10:12 PM »
Greetings.
So I have introduced myself long-windedly in the newbies section.

I scrutinized the pinned documents. I want to give it a shot the way you outlined, but there are a few ingredients missing.
Soda is available as a cleaning agent (although these days less and less popular in the vicinity of flashy perfumed cleaners...), but I ask myself if it is feasible to look for water as clean as possible and then add something that is destined for floor cleaning.

Don´t misunderstand me, I am not debating the addition of sodium carbonate, but I question the purity of a product that is not made for ingestion.
I have a small bucket of potassium carbonate food grade left over from another project and I will use that. If I understand correct, the weight will be interchangeable.

Corn syrup seems ubiquitous in the States, but not here. You get glucose syrup for making soft ice, but I did not find out if this is the same. They say it is glucose-fructose in various mixes.

I can get maltodextrin, but the Cinnamon thing seems more flexible.

The generator I have can be set to single polarity and switching polarity. The latter produces "clear" Colloidal Silver - which in in the lights of the stuff said here is probably I.O.S. Is there any merit of making the Colloidal Silver this way and then reduce it?

Thanks.

49
Colloidal Gold Production / Re: Urgent request: idiot proof guide
« Last post by kephra on March 17, 2024, 10:02:18 PM »
Karo or sugar bonds to the gold, not the washing soda.
Color indicates particles size.  You want ruby red.  Blue indicates large particles that are not effective.
50
Colloidal Gold Production / Re: Urgent request: idiot proof guide
« Last post by Milemanager on March 17, 2024, 09:59:38 PM »
I was using the sodium carbonate and Karo syrup method with Gold chloride from Sirius Metals (1% Gold Metal - 0.5 grams in 50mL)

Just wanting to know the chemical process of suspending the gold in distilled water.  I understand the chloride boils off as the temperature gets to 212f, but is the gold bonding to the sugar in the Karo or to the sodium carbonate?  Also, the color is due to the absorption/reflection of light through the liquid so this ruby red color, does it tell me the quality or success of the colloidal gold process?
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