hi, Im new.

[Kephra]

I run my current at 250 to 350 ma.  There is probably no exactly 'right' value. 

The brass discoloration should not be a problem. 

[vratoemba]

thanx.

I'm making some more right now!
run it at 36 volts now, it takes 310 ma, its slowly dropping.
after 20 minutes its 295 ma.

ah, another thing: can I be sure that its ok for comsumption?
or is there any way to test that?

[Kephra]

If its red and clear, and you didn't put anything toxic in it, its ok.  If its violet or blue its not toxic, but its less effective.

[vratoemba]

I ran it for 40 minutes at 36 volts this time, and again I got a nice red colloid!

I have a few more questions, I hope you dont mind.

-I have read that red CG is from particles in the range between 5 and 20 nm, is there a way to get even smaller particles?

-is there a way to extract the nano gold from the colloid? and have a "stable" reddish powder?
I have been reading a bit on the internet about stabalizers or "capping agents.....
would it be possible to do this at home somehow? like the CG production?

[Kephra]

I ran it for 40 minutes at 36 volts this time, and again I got a nice red colloid!

I have a few more questions, I hope you dont mind.

-I have read that red CG is from particles in the range between 5 and 20 nm, is there a way to get even smaller particles?

I think there is, but I read one study that said that particles below red color were toxic, and also particles that were rod shaped. 

-is there a way to extract the nano gold from the colloid? and have a "stable" reddish powder?

Yes, but I do not know the method (yet).  The Aurasol tablets marketed by Optimox Corp were made that way, and the doctor that created them said he spent years learning how to do it.

I have been reading a bit on the internet about stabalizers or "capping agents.....
would it be possible to do this at home somehow? like the CG production?

You are already doing it.  Anything that covers the gold nanoparticle is a capping agent and is also the stabilizer.  Citrate or maltodextrin is the stabilizer.

[vratoemba]

You are already doing it.  Anything that covers the gold nanoparticle is a capping agent and is also the stabilizer.  Citrate or maltodextrin is the stabilizer.

yes I understand, could I consider the gold particles in my colloid to be fully coated with citrate?
but if I would boil for example 10 liters of CG untill its 100 ml, would the particles not agglomerate?
and if I would boil that 100 ml untill all the water is left, what do I end up with?  (what size particles?)
would it still be nano particles with a citrate coating?

I was thinking the following, but maybe it makes no sense......
I make 1 liter of CG, then boil it down to 800 ml.
then add some extra citrate, and boil down to 600 ml.
add citrate, boil down etc etc?
repeating untill it is totally dry.
would that be a good way to get a "thicker", "more stable" coating of citrate around the particles?
or would extra citrate not attatch to the existing coating on the gold particles?

is there maybe a capping agent that "loves" to attatch to the existing citrate coating, so I could try the proces of extra "stabalizing" and boiling down and ending up with stable nanogold?



 

[Kephra]

You are already doing it.  Anything that covers the gold nanoparticle is a capping agent and is also the stabilizer.  Citrate or maltodextrin is the stabilizer.

yes I understand, could I consider the gold particles in my colloid to be fully coated with citrate?

Yes they are fully coated.

but if I would boil for example 10 liters of CG untill its 100 ml, would the particles not agglomerate?

I am pretty sure that you would end up with much large particles, especially with citrate as the stabilizer.

and if I would boil that 100 ml untill all the water is left, what do I end up with?  (what size particles?)
would it still be nano particles with a citrate coating?

I think your nano particles would be ruined.

I was thinking the following, but maybe it makes no sense......
I make 1 liter of CG, then boil it down to 800 ml.
then add some extra citrate, and boil down to 600 ml.
add citrate, boil down etc etc?
repeating untill it is totally dry.
would that be a good way to get a "thicker", "more stable" coating of citrate around the particles?
or would extra citrate not attatch to the existing coating on the gold particles?

Because citrate is an ionic substance that stabilizes by the double layer action, I don't think it will survive drying.  A non-ionic stabilizer like maltodextrin or some other large non-ionic molecule would be a better thing to try.   

is there maybe a capping agent that "loves" to attatch to the existing citrate coating, so I could try the proces of extra "stabalizing" and boiling down and ending up with stable nanogold?

Not that I know of.  I think citrate is the wrong direction, you need a steric stabilizer like modified starch, dextrin, or maltodextrin which stabilizes simply because it sticks to gold and is a big molecule rather than relying on electrostatic repulsion which only works in a wet environment.

Here is one hint I can give you though.  I weighed an Aurasol tablet which contains 10mg of gold.  The tablet weighs 830 mg, so it has 82 times more other stuff than the gold it carries.

Edited to add:
The ingredients in the Aurasol gold tablets are:
Metallic gold 10mg
Microcrystaline cellulose
Micosolle
maltodextrin
cottonseed oil
magnesium stearate
pharmaceutical glaze.

[vratoemba]

I could only find a recipy on the forum with maltodextrine to use with gold chloride.....
is there a recipy with maltodextrine that I can use with my setup?

[Kephra]

I don't think I ever published one.  You could try substituting about a gram of maltodextrin for the citrate.  Let me know how that works.

[vratoemba]

I'm ordereing some maltodextrine, and am going to give it a try.

the CG I have now is a bit pink, not really red, does that indicate bigger or smaller particles? or is it just low ppm?
I used 110 mg salt, 500 mg citrate 800 ml water this time (and 2 drops inverted sugar) . at 36 volts, the amps increased to 340 in the beginning then dropping.

also; when I am looking at the electrodes, the cathode seems to buble like crazy, but the anode does not bubble that much?
is that normal?

[Kephra]

Pink is low ppm. 

The cathode should bubble twice as much gas volume as the anode, because you are electrolyzing water which is H2O.  So one water molecule gives 2 hydrogen atoms at the cathode, and 1 oxygen at the anode.

The amount of salt limits how much gold ppm you can get.  I don't think you have enough.  Try a batch with 300mg salt and see what you get.

[vratoemba]

thanx.

so 300 mg salt, 500 mg citrate 800 ml water,and 2 drops inverted sugar?

[vratoemba]

would you consider 40 minutes long enough for 800 ml?

[Kephra]

Its long enough when you get no further color change.  I normally run 250ml for 30 minutes at 300ma.  This is probably longer than necessary but I want to make sure that all the chloride is used up.

Can you post the link for me that you are using as a formula?

[vratoemba]

I see now that I took that from a post from the forum.......that was describing the chloride method.