Ionized Water

[Stevie Mac]

Kephra,

ZeroWaters product performance isn't as much of a concern of mine... whether or not you benefit from drinking distilled water since it leaches minerals from your bones trying to recreate itself (water having memory) should be discussed further though, haha.

I recall asking you about if you ever looked into restructured micro-clustered/alkaline/acidic water machines that are used in 250+ Japanese hospitals from a company called "Enagic" a while back. They are Japanese Ministry of Health medically certified devices used to reverse a large spectrum of degenerative diseases rooted in dehydration and acidity. They also ONLY use the 2.5pH strong acidic water to disinfect surgical equipment and to wash their hands because it kills virtually all bacteria, viruses etc, on contact or within 30 seconds, including MRSA and Anthrax.

I have first hand personal knowledge that the claims one might hear about this "magic" water are true.

I've met and personally befriended four (inadvertently dozens more) Chicago native Cancer patients who detoxed, Alkalized their body and took specific nutrients to reverse their terminal late stage cancers without any conventional treatment and never looked back. These people experience no adverse reactions or side effects, they just get better (often times seeing greater health than before they developed Cancer). ALL of these people went from high grade tumors to untraceable in under 6 months, the lady with breast cancer in 2 1/2 months!

Stage 4 Pancreatic Cancer
Stage 2 Breast Cancer
Stage 3 Breast, Bone Cancer
Stage 4 Brain Cancer

I also know a woman who lived with type 1 Diabetes for 25 years who has cut her insulin in half only after 7 months on the water. She also doesn't have track marks because she uses the 2.5 strong acidic water to disinfect and it greatly reduced scaring. Her doctor even asked why she stopped taking her insulin because her skin was so clear!

Not to mention two guys from Twin Lakes Wisconsin who reversed their Parkinsons disease symptoms drastically in 6 weeks. They both continue to get better.

The reason I got into it was because I started experiencing chronic arthritis in my right elbow and I play drums for a living so we couldn't be having any of that! haha. After two months of suffering, two cat scans and an MRI later I called my fried Rod Czlonka who reversed his terminal brain cancer by alkalizing his body (He went on to write two published books about it). He gave me a weeks supply of water and by the fourth day all the inflammation and pain was completely gone and never came back.

I have 116 pages of peer reviewed published PubMed.gov literature on Alkaline Restructured Waters' (ARW) significant tumor reduction properties.

You can find these studies, and the disinfecting properties of Strong Acidic Water as far as other powerful testimony from people who can speak with authority HERE - http://www.mykangentools.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=10

Here is some Chemistry for ya - http://www.anti-aging-today.org/water/alkaline/ionized-water-hayashi1.htm

Here are their Certificates - http://www.enagic.com/technology_certificates.php

Here is a quick experiment showing what a small amount of this water does to your blood in only 14 minutes - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_SsE8gCtOs&feature=player_profilepage

If anyone is interested in getting a machine, I will be able to help you order because purchasing one automatically gives you the option to be a distributor. Basically, you can't just buy a medically certified Enagic Sd501 machine built to last a minimum of 15 years from just anywhere.

Email - SteveMcElheny at gmail dot com

Let me know what you think!

PS beware of less "expensive" Korean Ionizers that claim to do the same things, they're actually marked up 300 percent more than the 35 year old pioneering company (Enagic) and hold a risk of titanium poisoning (I also know two families who were poisoned from cheap machines). There is also a big return policy issue with the knockoff brands where they don't cover hard water areas (80% of the US is hard water).


Edited by Kephra to prevent email harvesters from gaining your email address.

[Kephra]

ZeroWaters product performance isn't as much of a concern of mine... whether or not you benefit from drinking distilled water since it leaches minerals from your bones trying to recreate itself (water having memory) should be discussed further though, haha.

I wasn't considering it for drinking water, I was considering it as a cheaper substitute for distilled water for making CS and CG.

[silverFalcon]

[bsilverman444]

The cheapest way to get your ph level alkaline is by drinking water with a bit of natural lemon juice and to eat plenty of vegetables.
...

Can anyone confirm this? Seems unlikely. Why would a machine be developed if lemon juice works? In some asian countries they server water with lemon or lime juice in restaurants, which gives it a nice flavor.

[Kephra]

Lemon juice is an acid (citric), not alkaline, so I can't see any reason it would.  Vegetables on the other hand probably do contribute to a balanced pH because of their mineral content. 

In fact, ingesting anything alkaline is immediately neutralized by the acid in the stomach.  Otherwise, you could alkalize your body by taking antacids.

Stomach acid pH is 1 to 2, even more acidic than vinegar.

[silverFalcon]

The foods you eat can become acidic or alkaline after they are digested. This means that certain foods, after they are digested, will produce acidity in the digestive tract, and others will produce alkaline base materials. Even though lemon juice has acidity of 2, when small amount is disolved in water and digested it changes ph to alkaline.
Just google it...
Fruits and vegetables are the healtiest because they change their ph after they are digested...

[Kephra]

Oh, you are right.  Good going!

So the easiest and cheapest way to alkalize my body is simply to take potassium citrate which is what the lemon juice turns into, and would be even more effective.

[silverFalcon]

Now Kephra, work your magic and tell us what is the amout that would be safe and healthy for us...

[Kephra]

Potassium citrate is sold over the counter in 100mg tablets.  This amount is safe, but most probably not optimum.  The limiting factor is the potassium content which can throw off your electrolyte balance if you took too much. 

100mg of K-Citrate has about 39mg of potassium.  Compare that to a baked potato which has about 800mg potassium.  I've never heard of anyone getting ill or dieing from a baked potato. 

The RDA allowance for potassium is 4700 mg for an adult.

Nevertheless, use caution. 

I tried taking K-Citrate (It tasted better than K-chloride)  to increase my potassium in the hopes of lowering my blood pressure a couple years ago.  It helped a little. I bought a kilo of K-Citrate and made my own capsules instead of paying for commercially made pills.  Its dirt cheap that way.

You should read this for information about taking K-Citrate as a supplement.
http://www.drugs.com/potassium.html

[Stevie Mac]

Lemon juice is an acid (citric), not alkaline, so I can't see any reason it would.  Vegetables on the other hand probably do contribute to a balanced pH because of their mineral content. 

In fact, ingesting anything alkaline is immediately neutralized by the acid in the stomach.  Otherwise, you could alkalize your body by taking antacids.

Stomach acid pH is 1 to 2, even more acidic than vinegar.

[Stevie Mac]

I'm sorry but I find it very hard to believe manufacturing costs under 200 dollars. If that were true, you should consider it disposable. It cost Enagic 1200 dollars to put seven 7"x4" titanium coated plates hand dipped into medical grade platinum, alone. Your friends most likely have "mesh" plates that were spray painted (seriously). We're comparing a Ford Focus that was built without access to the engine, to a Ferrari here.

Many unscrupulous competitors emphasize that network marketing is a "pyramid" which is why the Enagic costs double the competition, and that people can save money by buying a cheaper brand on the internet.

In reality, the issues above are why Enagic costs more: its pedigree is for long term use by hospitals, not an appliance you throw away, and hospitals demand long term performance and durability.  If you are dealing with your own personal health for fifteen years, who wouldn't want to steer away from cheap imitations?
I would rather a cardiologist perform my heart surgery although I could probably get it done half price in Mexico.  We're not talking about experimenting with buying a cheap new brand of TV here....

The key in determining cost is to see what the actual markup is for marketing/distribution/etc.  The reality is that all of these other brands have approximately the same markup... they just collect it at fewer levels and want you to infer that there are not multiple levels in their organization.

Want to know the truth? The other ionizers are multi-level also, they just don't admit it. with the same 300-500 percent markup for a cheaper brand that wont last, outsourced parts and virtually no customer service. (You're dealing with offices from mostly Korea, try getting them to call back)

But there is nothing wrong with "multi-level".  Everything we buy is in effect multi-level.  If you buy a car, the salesman gets a cut, his boss gets a cut, his bosses' boss gets a bonus, on up the line.  That's because there is value added at each level, then it slowly phases out.

Would you rather pay a faceless internet marketer 60% of the cost going to marketing/distribution, or would you rather pay that 60% to a local distributor who will take care of you and actually deserves the money because he educated you, etc.?  AND he will actually help you sell to your friends so in the long run you'll get all of your money back and more?

Just about anything you buy -- a TV, shoes, shirts, car -- it's 60% or 65% marketing and distribution.  Enagic has the most efficient plan for distributing this type of unknown product as compared to other venues.  The competitors try to imply that their units are lower priced because of markup when in reality it's because of cutting corners in manufacturing.... not more efficient, just cheaper materials.

 Do you want a solid bumper-to-bumper five year warranty from the MANUFACTURER who has been professionally been supplying ionizers to hospitals for 39 years and therefore has a well proven record, or would you trust some other warranty (even a Tyent "Forever" warranty) from a MARKETING COMPANY which has been in existence for about five years, and is a one-horse operation operating out of a suite?

Good luck with the lemons though!

[Kephra]

Ok, lets look at the machine and what is happening.

It appears that the machine consists of two electrodes, plus ion specific membranes separating the electrodes.  The sales literature says salt is required also to make strongly alkaline water.  Except for deionized or distilled water, it is almost impossible to find water anywhere that does not have some dissolved salt in it.

The electrodes are claimed to be titanium covered with platinum.

Taps provide access to water from either electrode chamber.

So first, lets look at the electrodes.  Platinum is used because it is noble, or non reactive, and will not erode during operation.  However, there is absolutely no benefit to the base metal being titanium other than it is light weight.  Since the water does not touch the base metal, it could be copper, aluminum, brass, iron, etc.  You all should already know this from your experiments with CS. 

Next, an ion selective membrane is one which will pass certain ions but not others.  These are commercially available for silver, sodium, potassium, chlorine, and a few others.  I do not know what they cost, probably not real cheap.

So we have an electrolysis cell with 'filters' to separate the products.  What do we get when we electrolyze sodium chloride?  Well that is a well known commercial process.  This is the process used to produce sodium hydroxide and chlorine gas.  In 1999 alone, over 10 billion kilograms of sodium hydroxide was made by electrolysis of salt water.

It seems clear then that these water 'ionizers' actually produce sodium hydroxide, or common lye.  Sodium ions travel through the selective membrane, are reduced to sodium metal at the cathode.  Sodium metal reacts quickly and violently with water to produce sodium hydroxide which is concentrated at the cathode chamber by the selective membrane.  Sodium hydroxide in the water makes it alkaline. 

At the other electrode chamber, the chloride ions are oxidizing to chlorine gas and dissolving into the water to create  hypochlorous acid, which is the the cousin to ordinary household bleach (which is the sodium salt of hypochlorous acid).

These are well known chemical processes, and the machine is just a scaled down version of a commercial sodium hydroxide generator.

In theory, to create sodium hydroxide water with a pH of 8, it requires 1 micro mole of sodium hydroxide for a liter of water (10^{^-(ph14 -pH8)}).

1 micro mole of NaOH is a mere 40 micrograms of sodium hydroxide.

In practice, it takes more because water absorbs carbon dioxide which makes carbonic acid, and that neutralizes some of the sodium hydroxide.

I have tested adding sodium hydroxide to distilled water, and I get a pH of 8 by adding 2 drops of 1M NaOH to 250ml of water.  This is the concentration I use to make CS with NaOH and corn syrup.

As for micro clustering, there is no mechanism in the generator which could accomplish such a feat, and present science is that water clusters last for only a few pico seconds without breaking up or recombining into different clusters.  In any event, there is no means available to test the size of water clusters.

There is also no way to electrically charge water.  To charge water would mean giving the water extra electrons, which is commonly called 'static' electricity.  But electrons repel each other vigorously which is the basis for the Van de Graff generator, and the reason shuffling your feet on a carpet can make your hair stand on end.  The electrons repel each other, and the way to get the farthest apart is to spread out onto the surface of the object.  However, these electrons bleed off quickly when given the chance to contact anything conductive, like a doorknob, a pipe, a faucet, etc.  So that is a false claim.

My conclusion is that the machines work, and produce alkaline and acid waters, but I can just add a few drops of sodium hydroxide solution to my water to accomplish the same result.  The advantage of the machine is that there is no safety issue with handling highly corrosive sodium hydroxide (also known as drain cleaner).  Does that make it worth the price to get the safety over buying sodium hydroxide to make alkaline water, and bleach for disinfectant?  Well, that is for you to decide.

[silverFalcon]

Hi Steve Mac,
The lemon juice is just one step of living healthy life. I'm sure that people would not need water ionizers if they just live healthy lifestyles. Look at an average North American, created by design, and tell me if there is anything that could help him/her, including ionizers, but themselves?
It's like feeding them poison in the morning (the food that they eat, ie. fast food, pharma, diet drinks, etc.) and giving them some sort of medication (ionizer) at night.
To live healthy lifestyle, you need you, not ionizer, that's my point.
The bottom line is: exercise often (that's include sex), don't eat or drink whatever you see via adds on TV, eat with moderation including vegetables and fruits, drink clean water...and I'm sure lemon juice will do.

[bsilverman444]

This is a new subject for me, and interesting. Friends of mine, a couple, the husband was diagnosed with cancer throughout his bones, only a month or two ago. Just before first reading this post, the wife told me about a ph machine that had just been loaned to them etc.. This has given her the incentive to start researching a bit online which has confused her of course. Its not easy to find a site such as this which gets into real science and real results. I dont know what my point is right now, but very interested in this subject now.

[bsilverman444]

Checked my friends machine and it is the korean one. Hope it want hurt them. Will try to get a sample and make cs with it.